Episode 3: Disney
[originally posted to Patreon on 8/6/25]
TRANSCRIPT:
Frankie: Hey. Sari.
Sari: Hey, man.
F: What's your favorite Disney film?
S: Brother Bear.
F: Wow.
S: I know.
F: That's such a virgin answer. Wow. I didn't really expect that one from you.
S: You heard it. How about you?
F: When I was a kid, it was classic Lion King. But as an adult,
S: Is it because your dad died?
F: Wow.
S: Sorry. I didn't mean that We'll keep that as a….
F: Yeah we'll keep it. But as an adult, I've really come around to my mom's side of thinking. Her favorite is, Sword in the Stone. And Sword in the Stone is just an unhinged level of craziness, and it's amazing. It's great. It's pretty funny. Like, Merlin's beard is too long, and he keeps getting it wrapped up and stuff. That's great. You know, just general mayhem every time they turn into animals.
S: It's different than the black cauldron.Right?
F: No. Black cauldron is very different. Super dark.
S: Also Disney, though.
F: Yeah. Prophetic pig.
S: But yeah. So, you know, it gave us entertainment, but it fucked up our lives. So
F: Wow. Can you expand on that?
S: But really, it's kind of like it gave you an unhealthy expectation of what, like, happens. You know? All these stories for children and shit like that were always kind of realistic. You know? Someone dies at the end or, you know, I don't know, fucking the origin of the German, like, tales that resemble life. And this is kind of like the American dream kind of, you know, if you work hard, everything is possible. And it's like fucking not. And I think, like, we had to unlearn a lot of it. And I don't know. I give, like, stories we hear as children, like, a big part in forming our identity.
F: Yeah. Definitely. Mhmm. I mean, I would say that I don't think necessarily the original stories were completely realistic. I don't know about you, but it's only, like, every once in a while does a wolf come and, like, try to eat the pigs that live next door. But you're right. There was they were darker. There was more depth. Yeah. But that's, like, grim you know, there was the French guy from, like, the eighteenth century, and his whole thing was he he wrote down a lot of these stories, like, Little Red Riding Hood, Sleeping Beauty, but they were, like, very clearly moralistic. Mhmm. It was like Little Red Riding Hood was about, like, you little sluts, don't go out into the woods and talk to men.You little sluts, and then, like
S: The wolf will eat you.
F: Yeah. The wolf will eat you, and it'll be your own fault for wearing that sexy little red hood. You sluts?
S: Oh, wow. I never thought of like the red hood being sexy.
F: Mhmm. Literally like The woman in red. Yeah. And she goes out. She She talks to a strange man.
S: She’s 12. Goddamn. Yeah.
F: Gross, isn't it? Mhmm. Yeah. You realize everything's pedophilia.
S: Also, everything French is pedophilia.
F: Yeah. Hundred percent. Mhmm. I still can get released in France.
S: But really, like, I tend to think that we're, like, the generation raised by, like, Disney, but, like, Disney's existed since the fifties.
F: Yeah. Yeah. My mom's favorite film, the Sword in the Stone is because that was the one that was came out when she was a kid.
S: So why do you think it, like, affected us more? Is it just, like, Disney under neoliberalism? Do you think it's, like, just Disney became such a big thing?
F: Disney had a resurgence in the nineties Because from 1989 with the release of The Little Mermaid, you get The Little Mermaid, Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Princess and the Frog, Aladdin had several films. The Lion King had several films.
S: Wait, Princess and the Frog. That was, like, we're quite old with that.
F: That was sort of the last one, but it was all around that wave. There was, like, ten, fifteen years from about 1989 to, like, 02/2005 where, like, they just everything was a hit. And it's when they joined up with Pixar.
S: Toy Story
F: Yes. Actually, Pixar as well. And, like, it was our core years, and they were released, you know, every year. Tarzan, Brother Bear, Emperor's New Groove, even the, like, lesser known ones, we all know them. You know what I mean?
S: Because I'm kinda looking at, like, you know, the the new ones that are coming out, like, inside out and shit. And, like, I would have needed that as a kid. You know? They they tell you how, like, what your emotions are and what you're feeling and where you're feeling them. But do do you think it's better now? Do you think, like, there is, like, better and worse? Like, are the stories we're telling better? Was it, like, a a time where, I don't know, of optimism and, like, everything's gonna be okay that kind of never materialized?
F: We were definitely the first generation that was told via almost every form of media we took in that we could be anything we wanted to. Like, that didn't happen in earlier generations. Everything from, like, every piece of TV, media, everything we took in was, like, you can be anything you wanted, which is why we're so disillusioned because we grew up and we're like, that's not true. So I don't know if necessarily it was better. Like, I think Gen Alpha, the one that's sort of, like, taking in things, yeah, that's young now, fuck knows, like, how they're gonna be fucked up in the future.
S: Because, like because we was a hope at some point. Right? And now we're just like, oh, these millennials can't even buy a house.
F: Dude, but they we were like and it happens with every younger generation, but it like, because we grew up as well growing up with the Internet Mhmm. And then media sources started using the Internet, it was like, as soon as we reach, you know, teenage years, even the oldest of us, the newspaper and the media sources, the Internet were all talking about how shady our generation was. Mhmm. Like, granted, every other generation had to go through that.
The grunge phase, the punks, the hippies, like, they all had to go through it. But it was, like, on television or in newspapers. Not in your pocket all the time.
S: That's true. Also, like, do you think some part of this kind of, like, neoliberal optimism was from, like, oh, the Soviet Union has fallen.
F: Probably. Yeah.
S: Because we know they even called that, like, era, like, the end of history. Like, there shall be no more history.
F: We'll be fine now. We've cured everything.
S: Something like that.
F: The gays, we don't talk about. There's no more racism, and, the Soviet Union has collapsed. Hooray.
S: Yes. Like, I I feel like something like that because before it always have to be like, you need to be better than the commies. The commies are gonna come, and now it's just like you just need to be a perfect little snowflake. And I don't know. Well,
F: I think it is interesting to look at, like, the way that Disney is the main source of connection that the average person has with fairy tales, with a westernized, more or less, folklore is through Disney. Yeah. It's actually in vain how much, like, people don't will just be like, oh, I know fairy tales. Sure. From Disney. They don't know any other, sort of connection to that unless they have, you know, it's such a small percentage of the population that, like, even know the folklore or the myths or the legends that maybe their parents' generation would have grown up with.
S: You know, I find it weird also, like, my mom keeps talking about Soviet cartoons, and she describes them as kind. Mhmm. And I just find it really weird because she saw Disney with us and everything.
F: Yeah.Yeah.
S: And she's always like, oh, you know, there's like, Soviet cartoons are different. They're kind. And I I find them a bit more harsh actually and stuff, but I find it very strange that she uses that word to describe them.
F: But also think about the the Disney films we watched. They were a 100 percent teaching us about individualism. Uh-huh. Nothing was for, like, the there was there wasn't a community that you were working with. It was always the individual hero, the individual heroine, the individual, like, you know, maybe
S: Hercules didn't need the the village to help him with anything.
F: No. No. Exactly. Even, like, the lion king. But, like, he was the king of the pride or whatever, but left, fucked off, and then came back not because of, like she was like, the pride need you, and he was like, it's my destiny. Yeah. And you're like, those are two very different things. But it's always, like, a hero or heroine doing something for themselves. Even in beauty and beast, the community is the enemy. That's pretty true. Yeah.
S: And they're like, there's a beast.
F: They're like, kill the beast and also fuck that old man. And you're like, what? Why is the community so shitty?
S: Yeah. It's like be yourself, whoever you are. And it's like, I'm with like, because I I guess I was born in this time, so I I'm individualistic. I'm just seeing it as not the most important thing anymore. It's like compromise and being part of something bigger is important, and it's not just like who I am and what I wanna be. It's kind of how I can compromise and be able to be part of community while being. Imagine, like, the beast though, hey. I'm strong, and I have a fucking manor. I have yeah. Like, come use my castle if you need it,
F: He can house all the homeless people in the village? Exactly. Sorry, Maurice. Everybody's gonna dick to you. Come live in my castle with me with all my talking plates.
S: Absolutely.
F: Be sick.
S: You know, Gaston, I have a fucking gym, bro. Come on.
F: Let's pump some iron, dude. Put some iron together, bro.
S: Gains, Gaston. Let's get some gains.
F: But, like, think about the films that were not Disney, that were less popular of the era were completely, like, competing with those ideas. The one that jumps to mind is Ferngully, one of my favorite films. Not a Disney film. It was about seeking, say, like, savior for this entire, jungle, for the entire rainforest. We together need to find a way to overcome the individual capitalistic, you know, nature destroying machine that is Tim Curry playing a bit of, like, pollution. It was an amazing film.
S: It was just pollution. Right? He wasn't a tractor or something.
F: No. No. He was, like, pollution. He was a hexis. It was fantastic. Also, sidebar, that film and, Avatar Uh-huh. Were both inspired by an Ursula Le Guin novella called The Word for World is Forest. If you've never read it, it's really good. It's about colonialism and capitalism. And, you know, it's literally that story that we keep saying, Pocahontas, that story of, like, destruction man comes to nature world to destroy and, like, must learn. But it takes out the beauty of her book is that it takes out the no romance story in there. There doesn't you know, the man doesn't need to learn to care for Forest because he wants to fuck some woman. That's that's literally what it is. That's the only reason he learns. In hers, it's fucking brutal. The native people are like, okay. We've they've never had murder. In the entire society, there's no murder. They don't know what it is, and they have to teach themselves to murder, to get rid of all these fucking human beings destroying their planet, and then they're changed inevitably. It's fucking amazing. But, yeah, back to, like, the the the way that Disney is you know, you can't you can't imagine Pocahontas is as close to that story as Disney ever got. Mhmm. And it still is, like, portraying the native people in really bad ways, still got white saviorism.
S: And she, like, leaves. Right? Like She oh. She goes with him
F: Does she leave?
S: Because, like, I think Pocahontas two is, like, in London.
F: Oh, yeah.
S: It's like, why don't she leave? Right? You know? After all of this, like, she she can paint with all the colors of the mountains.
F: Of the wind.
S: Yeah.
F: That's the matter with you. Don't you know? Paint with all the colors of the wind. Yeah. But also, like, girl, I can tell you, London sucks. You don't need to go there.
S: Imagine she went also in, like, eighteenth or nineteenth century. Like No.
F: No. Like like, earlier than that, it was the fucking seventeenth century,
S: Dude. It smelled like poo.
F: It's just Like, just in time for the peasant's revolt. Mhmm. Yeah. Disgusting. No sanitation. Yeah. It's but that's, like, as close as they could get. You know what I mean? They were like, a love story, and you're like, she was a child.
S: I was kinda like going about the Disney generation thing a bit because I feel like somehow for our generation at least, like, media has evolved with it. Like, they understood that we're becoming adult, but they kind of still infantilized and gave us what we want, like, with the Marvel shit and with, like, all the new
F: Star Wars.
S: Star Wars and everything like that. You know? Like, they're like, oh, these people love Disney, and we've kind of imprinted on them somehow so we can keep it going. And even as adults, we'll just show them, like, superhero shit or, like, you know, like, we I don't know. Are are we like Peter Pan's that never grew up, or did they hook us in a way that other generations didn't get hooked? Were we just, like, well suited for this? Did they find the formula? Like, I wonder what it is.
F: I Think it was just I I think it was a perfect storm of so many things. They had, like, that boom during our childhood where they became really successful the thing they were making was really successful. Technology was taking off at that time. The Internet was taking off at that time. We're in the height of neoliberalism. Like, it was sort of a perfect storm of things that have, like, very quickly led us to the point of capitalism in media that we're in now, where it's like things are just commercialized. That's a brand, and we're gonna sell that brand. We're gonna pump out ideas, any idea for that brand, and we're gonna continue to make stuff until literally nobody wants to see another Marvel thing ever again. But, like, they've done it so well because they've been able to spread across things like, you know, Netflix and social media and films. So, like, remember when the first Netflix Marvel TV show started coming out? It was I think it was, like, Daredevil.
S: The Flash.
F: The Flash was DC. That yeah. And it was okay. And then there was, the one with what's her name. David Tennant was bad guy. We watched it, I think. And she was, like, super strong, but the whole thing was she was trying to avoid him, her, David Tennant, who, like, he his his super villain power was that anybody had to obey what he told the two. And because she had super strength Mhmm. She was like an ultimate weapon for him. I don't remember that. I can't remember what it was called, but it was like one of the first ones that came out when we were all still like, oh, this is kind of cool. Like, we're nostalgic for comic books and a and a a different age and shit like that.
S: Yeah. So, like, the Gen Xers, you know, they they grew up with with all of these, like, commercial toys and saw cartoons and stuff like that, but then they kind of, like, grew up and didn't stay stuck in these kind of, like somehow, we seem, like, still very childlike or, like, infantile in our, like, mid thirties. And Yeah. I wonder if the next generation is also gonna be like that. Mhmm. Is it just because we're, I don't know, gonna live longer? So now we're, like, in our twenties versus the I I don't really know, but I kinda feel like it was a concerted effort to keep us Yeah. Consuming and
F: Oh, 100%. Definitely, they keep us consuming. And I think they just happened to hit on a, like, a a generation where, like, parenting styles are changing.
S: Mhmm.
F: When it came to us, we're being because there was so much, like, relative peace and wealth. At that time period. As opposed to, like, if you think about when Gen Xers were young, think about the generation before us and the media they were taking in, it was all postmodernism, and it was loud, and it was bash, and it was like everything they did was this pushback, and it was grunge. And if you think about that's the adolescence that they had to go through, it really leaned into their angst. Mhmm. The adolescence that we had was all about, like, pacifying that.
S: There was almost a counterculture that was embedded into, like, the 70s and 80s. Yeah. Yeah.
F: Exactly.
S: We completely lost out.
F: We became it's when the Americanization really spread. Because I think if you talk to, say, Gen Xers from Lebanon Mhmm. They'd be far less Americanized than
S: Than us. Yeah. For sure.
F: Than you guys. It was just like the American export of culture went way up. Mhmm. And so we all kind of have this, like, you know, this this communal, weird, adopted culture of American media and ideals, which are individualism and consumerism at the end of the day.
S: And told us that we're, like, specialists, snowflakes, and everything's gonna work out, and
F: Yeah. Yeah.
S: You just need to dream.
F: It's like the system of capitalism is trying something new with every generation to get us to work more.
S: Mhmm.
F: So it was like, you can be anything that you want. You just have to work hard. Mhmm. Because what they did in previous generations, it was just you have to work hard. So then it became a mindset changed to, like, you can do you get a prize. You get a very special prize because you're a very special little boy. You have to work hard. So that's what we did. We paid money into the, you know, higher education system, which in and of itself had become a massive industry. We paid thousands of dollars into that to get a degree, to work.
S: Well, it's biting them in the ass because none of us wants to fucking work now. Like, all the millennials I know are like We're like, I just wanna chill, dude.
F: I don’t wanna work. I don't wanna have any fucking kids. Uh-huh. I don't even wanna, like, watch Disney movies anymore. I don't wanna buy any of your shit. I just wanna be left alone. Mhmm. I wanna go back into the woods to Ferngully.
S: Word.
F: And, you know, rap with Batty. My name is Batty. My mind is scattered.
S: You have said scatty..
F: I don’t know, I don't remember. Maybe he did. I don't know.
S: But wait. Oh, he does rap.
F: Yeah.
S: He actually raps?
F: Have you ever seen Ferngully?
S: I think I've seen it. It's just so long ago.
F: Okay. Well, we'll we'll we'll watch it later too. Alright. Because Ferngully is batitz. Alright. Alright. Fucking sick, bro.
S: There's a rap …..
F: Played by Robin Williams. Mhmm. Dude, it's like they were, like he they, like, let him try they just put him in the studio and let him do whatever the fuck he wanted to do.
S: Robin Williams rapped?
F: As a as a bat.
S: As a bat.
F: It's awesome. A bat who's escaped from, like, science lab. He had experiments done on him.
S: Man, they they knew COVID was gonna happen. Yeah, man.
F: This just turns into, like, a conspiracy theory. Like well, again, we should go back to our question of of how much realistically how much do I love to hear from other people of other generations like below us or above us? How much has like specifically Disney and the way that it portrays classic stories, folkloric stories, fairy tale stories, how much does that have an effect on you, do you think, and your culture and the way that you look for media now? How do you see the world? That's, I think, what I'm interested in from from other people.
S: Yeah. And, like, how much is it a formative part of their worldview?
F: And why is it or is it not formative? Like, I'd love to ask my mom and her siblings, you know, you watched some Disney films as a kid. How much has that affected you? Because I feel like my childhood is defined by that Mhmm. And the Muppets. Mhmm. But the Muppets were sick, bro.
S: Sick shit.
F: It's honestly, it's what got me into theater because half of the Muppet show was just Kermit backstage freaking out, and I was like, I could be a stage manager.
S: Wait. Was Kermit the stage manager?
F: Kermit was, like, the host. He was, like, the, like, stage manager. He was the, like, the programmer. He was the producer. He did everything. He wasn't the star of the Muppet show. It was obviously miss Piggy.
S: Miss Piggy was the star.
F: Well, according to Miss Piggy, you don't argue with Miss Piggy. Right. That's But, like, everybody, you know, have their slot. Gonzo did tricks with chickens. You know, Fozzie Bear had his tight five minute stand up set, etcetera. They have a guest.
S: Five minutes stand up set.
F: Yeah.
S: Was it good?
F: It's Fozzie Bear. Waka Waka. Should we do that? Because I'm the Muppets. I fucking love the Muppets.
S: Waka Waka.