Episode 5: Vampires

[originally posted to Patreon on 8/10/25]

TRANSCRIPT:

S: Hey, friend.

F: Hi, friend. It's been a while since we've done this. We're so busy with the creation and publication and launch of Folkloric Issue one, out now on our website.

S: It was fun though. I really enjoyed that. 

F: It was. It was really fun. The event, anybody who came to the launch event, um, I mean, since our podcast audience is my mom and her sisters, they didn't come. But it was great for those of you that weren't there. We had some lovely readers. We had some people selling their artwork. We had lots and lots of people show up. And yeah, it was a lovely launch event.

S: I was thinking of maybe trying to do like a monster series for this podcast, 

F: uh, because, you know, you have so much experience your dating history and all that. You know monsters intimately. 

S: Uh-Uh, well, also, since I do know monsters intimately, I think like the direction we take with this is like monsters being what we're afraid of. Like what society is afraid of, like, uh, physicalization of our fears and anxieties and our unknowns and how we translate that into folklore and, yeah, monsters. Monsters. 

F: That makes sense. You know, I have been afraid of most of your exes. So they they are the fears, the monsters that I see in society. Makes sense. 

S: That's. Yeah, that's true. Most of my exes, you know, some of them. 

F: Most of them.

S: Some of them have been nice. 

F: Yeah. Nice monsters. So monsters are the representation of a society's fears that filter through to folklore. That makes sense. What monster would you like to start with? There are so very many. 

S: Well, what do you think is like, the most indicative of, like, our fears, especially in maybe like a European, Western kind of sense? 

F: Oh, not a European Western sense. 

S: Well, there's more than just European and Western. Just like to start off with, like there is you being you being a white girl, you know.

F:  How dare you out me? 

S: I am, I am Italian. 

F: Okay, Italians are white. This is a public service announcement. Italians are white anyways. 

S: Especially the ones born in America. 

F: Yeah, especially those ones, right? Uh, the ones that are most indicative of. I feel like. Oh, that's hard, because I feel like. I mean, it's not a monster, but the term witch hunt gets thrown around a lot. That's like a big one that's happening right now. But I feel like, you know, we can come back, which is our whole other thing. We'll come back to witches, I'm sure, at some point. Okay. So monsters. Um. I don't know, it's it's kind of hard. 

S: It's not a quiz show. It's just. It's vampires. We're doing vampires, motherfucker. 

F: I was trying to create, like, an ambiance. Like a sense of, you know, this is a natural, free flowing conversation. And maybe I don't know what's coming next, but I guess that doesn't make sense, considering I've got a vampire story on my sleeve. 

S: You know, I just got this random vampire story up my sleeve. 

F: I mean, yeah, I usually do anyways. Okay, fine. Vampires. We're going with vampires, of course. Makes sense. They're the most obvious, most popular, the sexiest. 

S: Um, well, you know, as we'll find out, they weren't always sexy. 

F: Speak on that. Huge if true. Honestly. Huge if true. 

S: Hot takes. There's many hot takes. 

F: I'm trying to be a professional podcaster. I've got, you know, say the things right. Tell me about them.

S: So, what do you know about vampires? Like, what's the most basic? Kind of. 

F: They suck blood. 

S: There you go. 

F: They have power over human beings. Sometimes that's like hypnotism. Sometimes it's like. Just like a dazzling effect. They're alluring. Even if, like we saw in the Nosferatu film, they have little tiny chicken legs. Something about them you like. Love that comb over, girl. Love that mustache. I want it on me. Um, sometimes they can turn into things like bats or rats or some other sort of, um, disease ridden vermin. Um. Are flying, but maybe that's bat related. Living in a castle. Love that. I mean, get. I get it here only for, like, virgins. They love some virgins, I don't know. I don't know. 

S: Okay. Um. 

F: The worst subsect of sexually inactive people. Virgins, they don't know what they're doing. Why? That's true. Um, Eastern European accent wise, uh, widow's peak. They love. They love a widow's peak hairstyle, so. And I never, never thought of that evening wear. 

S: How about, like, how how do you, uh, guard yourself against the vampires? 

F: Oh, uh, garlic and religious symbols. Uh, is there some holy water? Um, sometimes there's weird stuff, like. Like they can't cross Running water or something like that.

S: Good job. Yeah. That's a that's a niche. One that I didn't know before. 

F: Well thank you. I'm actually a vampire hunter. Oh, steak. I mean, that's how you kill him. Stake through the heart doesn't really protect you, but, you know, um, I think that's garlic is really the big kind of. I just not any albums, you know what I mean? You can't use onions or shallots. It's just garlic. 

S: Just garlic. There you go. They don't like that stinky breath. You know, 

F: like my father in law. Also allergic to garlic. Is he a vampire? We'll come back to that. We'll come back to that. I have a theory, 

S: which is why we don't have any vampires in Lebanon. Because we fucking eat that garlic by the spoonful. 

F: That's true, that's true. Mhm. Mhm. 

S: Never seen a Lebanese vampire, have you.

F: No. No I haven't. That's true. I have seen Lebanese goblins though. Is that is that related or different. 

S: No, no different. But my skinny chicken legs would have made you think that I might be a vampire. But that's. I love that garlic. But so basically, what you're saying is mostly kind of post-Christian vampires, but some of the things kind of have been retained, like the pagan things of how to kill a vampire would be stake in the heart, remove the head. Um, even burning didn't come in, um, before the plague. You know, the plague kind of is what brought in burning bodies. Um. Put them. 

F: I just remembered one. Go on. The you. They can't enter a unless they're welcomed in. They have to be invited in. Very polite. 

S: Um, again, a new a new, um, one that is a modern thing and I think comes from colonialism. But we will. We will get there. 

F: We'll get there. 

S: Um, but, yeah, put them upside down, you know, um, in the grave, remove their head, put a heavy stone on top. And I think, like, what I found the most interesting is that vampires nowadays are the stranger that comes and asks to be let into your house. While vampires before used to be part of the family, you know, they were the undead of the family, and it would be more scary for someone that you know to come back, but changed. And that kind of theme of like, this changeling, you know, is, is, is in a lot of like societies, you know, the fairies in Ireland and stuff like that. And they didn't they were able to cross the threshold if they wanted to before, which is why in like some places, like in Eastern Europe, they had like a strigoy. And the way to stop them from entering your house is to throw rice or or like wheat on the floor, and they are somehow compelled to count them. So. 

F: So they've got like, OCD a little bit.

S: Yeah, something like that. So, you know, vampire comes back, it's like, I don't know your dead grandma. And like, she cannot help but start counting grains of rice. And if dawn comes and they haven't counted all the grains of rice, then they're fucked, you know, 

F: love that. Grandma. Get down and count those grains of rice. I also like, as you're talking about the things that like the way to defeat a vampire. They are also things that would just work on normal people, like chopping the head off stake through the heart, burying them, putting them. I love the put a big stone on the grave on the coffin. They love it, you know? They can't move it. They can't get out. I'm like, they fucking stuck in there, right? 

S: Yeah, Yeah. So it started off, as you know, one of the family members coming back. And mostly it has to do again with like funeral rites. And if they were given proper funeral rites and that ranges from like ancient Greece to kind of Mesopotamia and, and like Eastern Europe. And it's I guess people's anxieties back then were kind of metaphysical. And if they were going to reach heaven or not, or if they're going to go to a better afterlife, and mostly if there is a vampire that comes back. So if you know your uncle or your grandma comes back as a vampire, it's the actual family who is held accountable for it and not the person who has died. So it's if you know, if you haven't given them enough respect or the correct burial rites, then they're gonna come back. And, you know, in ancient Greece, it used to be a three year mourning period. So you need to, uh, do all the correct funeral rites and put them in the ground. And then in three years, uh, the soul leaves the body only after the body is decomposed. So in three years, when they dig up the body, if the body is still not decomposed, it means that, um, you haven't done your shit correctly. You haven't done your funeral rites correctly. Which is why that body is that soul is still stuck to its vessel and is, you know, destined to roam the earth. And what's interesting is that it's considered a bad thing for the vampire themselves, that they're stuck for eternity, kind of not able to pass to the other side. While nowadays it's kind of glamorous to stay alive forever, you know, um, there's a famous Irish one. It's called an Abhartach. 

F: And I'm sure that's the correct pronunciation.

S: Yeah, that's it's from Glenullin in the fifth and sixth century. So basically it was a king, and the king drew its power from being like undead, and it had to drink the blood of its um, constituents, um, to regain its strength. And then these constituents go to another king and ask him to kill him, and he kills him. They bury him. Next day he's back up with a bowl going, give me some blood, bitches. And they're like, what the fuck is this? And then, you know, he goes, he talks to, uh, shaman druid kind of person, and he learns that he has to, you know, stick through the heart, chop off his head, put a big stone on top of him. But so what would you think? Like what? What's the anxiety of that? Like, what are people anxious about? 

F: And in classic Irish, uh, vibe there, it's the fear of the monarch taking too much from the people, overstepping his, like, power and literally taking their life force, literally taking so much from them and not, you know, doing the things a king should. Very, uh, anti-establishment.

S: Yeah, it's pretty good. It's like, you know, it's a general theme that it's like creatures that take the life force of someone else to gain its power. So it's like, it's a it's a parasitic kind of relationship. And it's about kings and abuse of power and, and how, you know, kings build their power on the blood or the life force of their constituents. Um, and that kind of theme of, of a creature that takes from others, um, for its own gain is like prevalent in all of them, but each of them have a different kind of anxiety of like who this creature is. Yeah. And why it does that. 

F: I mean, I think it's quite funny that like one thing that I, I'm bringing pop culture into it. Hi. It's me. I'm here to bring the like the the cultural aspect to it. But so like a modern version of vampires is the TV show What We Do in the shadows, where they introduce the idea of a 

S: Great show, um,

F: where they introduced the idea of an energy vampire that is such an amazing metaphor and character, because you know immediately who that person is. You're like, why is it sapping my energy just being around you and engaging in a conversation with this person? But again, it's like it's a low level. It's not a fear, it's a low level annoyance, but it's something that in the modern day, we have to deal with all the time of like people drawing your emotions from you, um, which I think comes from the sense of us being over individualized. We're very me, me me, me, me focused. And so it's so draining to socialize with people. You talk about your social battery and how some people really drain it like a vampire does, because we're so focused on ourselves that there's no, like, give.

S: But absolutely like, you're right, it's part of our anxieties. However, like, I think the difference is that the stakes are much lower because like before, they actually did believe that there are vampires and we kind of don't. We use vampire as like a metaphor? 

F: Yeah for sure. 

S: However, they definitely believe that there was a vampire at some point and, um, it came back in like strength during the plague. And so people when people couldn't understand, like why everyone was dying and also the plague went from like it took the vampire from being kind of, uh, the family was responsible for, for what was happening to, like, something that can infect even the innocents, you know, like even innocent people, even children, whoever it is, everyone is susceptible to this kind of, I don't know, like a corrupting factor of of a vampire. And that's where burning them also came in.

F: Yeah, I think that's interesting because when you also think about the things that suddenly become associated with vampire like bats, rats known. Exactly. You know, disease carrying vermin, um, as well. And yeah, I was thinking about the way that you talked about how the first at first, vampires were very family oriented. It was a domestic problem. It was something that you had to deal with, like as a family. And it was cause and effect where. Yeah, the plague, psychologically, on all of Europe had this massive effect of, like, it's nobody's fault. It's literally an act of God. Is this when religion comes into it? 

S: Well, religion comes in even before the plague. You know, religion comes in because Anything that's sort of bad that's happening is always attributed to like kind of the living dead and the like, lingering spirits somehow. And then religion came in and understood that it can't remove these ideas. And then it just kind of took them in and changed them. And then, you know, the rosary and the cross and the, you know, the holy water and all of those things kind of come in and, you know, talking about the plague, even not just the Black plague, because, like, there were different kinds of plagues. And then in the seventeenth century in, like Habsburg Serbia, you know, um, there were plagues happening here and there. And so vampires became a thing again, you know, um, and they had, uh, royal officers go, go and like, you know, uh, investigate these bodies that they're finding and then just, you know, burn the bodies and all of that just to kind of get the population a bit more chill, like, oh don't worry. Here's a vampire. And that's why everyone is dying and getting sick and dying.

F: Because this was like, this is what, three hundred years after the Black Plague, which was twelve, thirteen hundreds and then three hundred years later, you get plagues coming back two, three hundred years later and it's like, oh, remember all those rumors and those old stories? Well, now the Catholic Church is even more prevalent, or any church, I suppose at this point we've already had the Great Schism. So any sort of Christianity is so prevalent that they can be like, oh yes, no, it's vampires. We're experts on that. It's not, you know, poor us, municipal management or, you know, uncleanliness or intense poverty or anything like that. 

S: Yeah, yeah. And the church also kind of always likes to make it symbolic. It's always about sin, you know, it's always about your sin and stuff like that. It's never actually something physical. That's that's the problem, you know, and, um, just from there kind of to like sidetrack into a bit of like colonialism because this is around the time where it also, um, started 

F: taking a sidetrack into colonialism, just like I knew we would in,

S: in Peru, there's a thing called the taco, right? And it's also something that drains the life force of of the people. However, that life force, uh, is fat instead of, um, blood, and it drains people's fat. And it always comes as like a wealthy white, um, and apparently during that time, the like, the colonists actually would harvest fat from people and they boil it down to grease their guns. They'd use it to, uh, like 

F: oh my God,

S: for like wounds to heal soldiers, um, even to like, improve 

F: the Spanish are crazy. 

S: Even to improve the sound of their bells. Imagine killing people, draining their fat, and then, like rubbing that fat on some bells

F: on you're a little brass bell and you're like, ding ding ding! That sounds great.

S: I think like church Bell more. But sure, 

F: I'm thinking like a like a little kitchen bell. Like little tea bell. Ding ding. I'm like, girl, that's so petty. But like, oh my God, that's crazy. But you know what? Um, this is something that, like, you see quite a lot in, like, in colonialism, even going all the way back to ancient Rome imperialism. There's these like Western imperialists, they come and they conquer the quote unquote savages. Whether the Romans for the Romans, it was the Celts, um, slash. Gauls, Celts and Gauls are the same people, but they show up and they're like these freaks, these Celts, these blond barbarians, they have facial hair and they fight naked and they're really fearsome. And the most horrible thing is that they do human sacrifice as part of their druidic beliefs. And they were like, that's horrible. But then you look at what the Romans are doing and you're like, excuse me? You're doing human sacrifice as well. You're just like, call it something different. Same exact thing happened with the Spanish conquistadors. They're like, oh, all these all these savages over here in South America. Look at them. They're doing human sacrifice. And it's like you're harvesting people's fat just to, like, lube up your goddamn church bells. Like, what the fuck, man? White people are crazy,

S: I agree. White people are crazy. But yeah, so it's kind of, you know, the fear of the colonist becomes, you know, this draining creature that is undead. 

F: I'm sorry, I have to clarify. Is it piss taco? No. 

S: It's Pishtaco. 

F: Oh, pish. With an s-h. 

S:It's like Sean. It's like Sean Connery saying piss taco pesh taco over there.

F: You're Sean Connery is fucking atrocious. I mean, mine's bad. 

S: What do you mean? My fucking impressions are the best, 

F: Pishtaco. Okay, this is a complete sidebar, but I think our viewers will enjoy it. So apparently, when they were casting the Lord of the rings films, they offered the role of Gandalf to Sean Connery. 

S: Oh, my God, 

F: can you imagine? Can you imagine how I shall not pass? 

S: You shall not To pass. No, my friend, you shall not pass. 

F: It's just like it would be so funny. Keep it secret. Keep it safe.

S:Keep it secret. That's great. 

F: So good. If I could find a screen test of that, it would. Oh, man. My life would be complete. We'll find it. God damn it. Peter Jackson, release the Sean Connery version. 

S: This is our new, you know, our new fucking crusade. We need that.

F: I don't think they even, like, did a screen test. I think he just, like, couldn't do it. And we were all saved from him being like, it has no other master. 

S: When in doubt, mash the pilgrim. Follow your nose. 

F: Follow your nose, 

S: your nose.

F: Right Pishtaco

S: Right to get back to it. Um, so so how do you think? Kind of, you know, the classical Bram Stoker, um, Dracula. Like what? What things do you see in that that are kind of, like, different than the ones before?

F: Right. So Bram Stoker, that was like Victorian times. He was Irish writing, uh, this story about English people, um, going out to the, you know, not to the east, but to Eastern Europe getting sort of tricked. But then I think the interesting thing is that Dracula ends up buying a piece of property in England and coming over then maybe, and bringing his earth with him. So I think there's something about like in the height of the Imperial Victorian empire, the height of England taking everybody else's lands. What they're afraid of is immigrants is people coming over and taking their lands. Reverse imperialism? Maybe. 

S: Right. But. And also, like, even though Stoker was Irish, he still had the kind of ethos of empire, you know, in. 

F: How dare you know, Irishmen ever have the ethos of England? 

S: Well, you know, it's the truth. But, um. But yeah, you're right, it's the stranger. You know what used to be the family and the intimate suddenly becomes the stranger. But also, like, what do you notice about his mannerisms? You know, because before, vampires used to be, uh, gruesome. They used to look ugly. They used to be very kind of barbaric, or if you want to call that. But what? How is Dracula portrayed? 

F: Oh, he's a he's a gentleman. He's like suave. He's, you know, he's very seductive in his own way. 

S: Right. So, so basically kind of the signifiers, let's say, of empire where this etiquette. Right. Where like high society. And this is what distinguishes us from the natives. This is what distinguishes us from the lowborn, you know, so these kind of gestures and ways of talking and, and ways of conducting yourselves. So what suddenly becomes the fear is that the outside or the, the, you know, Slavs or whoever they think the other is, is using their politeness and their mannerisms to infiltrate them. You know, like Dracula no longer breaks down a door. He needs to be politely asked to come in. You know, he he isn't even when he, like, is killing someone. It's not violent or savage. It's kind of almost gentle, you know. It's like they swoon and they they kind of, you know, the victim is relaxed and kind of. And then they just gently bite them, and you know what I mean? 

F: But it's also like some of the things that Victorians were so obsessed with, they were so obsessed with. I mean, you can see it in everything from their architecture to their clothes. Everything is structured. It's straight up and down. It's restricted. It's like there are so many unspoken rules to Victorian society, and the fear is that somebody is going to know those rules and use them in a way, because it's their protection. So the, the that somebody's going to infiltrate that 

S: you've built a behavioural castle around yourself, you know, 

F: but then suddenly there's like this fear of the sexual nature of the, of the way he preys on people. It's a very sensual, it's very sexual, which are things that the Victorians were also so terrified of. They were so repressed when it came to that stuff. And this is such an like to, to attack somebody by biting, putting your mouth on their neck is so intimate. And it also like directly mirrors a pre-sexual act like it directly mirrors foreplay. So it's like this combination of all these things that Victorians would be obsessed with and also afraid of. 

S: And there's a theory that Bram Stoker was actually gay, and this happened around the, um, fucking what's his name? Oscar Wilde. Oscar Wilde. So Oscar Wilde, there was a trial where he was accused in France of being a homosexual, and he kind of went for it, you know, and made it public. And he lost the trial at the end, which brought a lot of you know, scrutiny and, and kind of, uh, over attention on these, like, male friendships, which, you know, were encouraged at some point, even like to have a romantic male friendship. And, you know, with the sexual part would always be non-spoken it was always, always be like implicit. But it was, you know, training for marriage.

F: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's also this sense of like a foppishness certain men were um, were a bit, I mean, fops were, you know, a hundred years before, but it's still that leftover, like walking that line. Oscar Wilde walked that line between feminine and masculine. He was very 

S: dandies, you know, dandies were a thing, dandies a thing then. And and Dracula is definitely a dandy, you know, he he dresses well. He takes care of his hair. He's always, like, clean and nice. But also, the protagonist in Dracula kind of is seduced by by Dracula. He feels an attraction to him. Um, another kind of. So there's a kind of a self-loathing aspect, because you put those things onto the monster, and it's the monster that does this, and he seduces you to do things that you don't actually want, and it becomes also an exploration of fantasy somehow. Um, another aspect of sexuality would be unproductive sex, right? Because vampires are sterile. So there's, there's this fear of, like, sex for the sake of pleasure and not for the sake of fun, 

F: Sex for fun 

S: which is? We don't fucking want any of that shit. 

F: That's not how I do it. I do, I do sex for agony. Um, misery and boredom. Not for fun. 

S: There you go. There you go. 

F: That's for you, mom. Yeah.

S: Also like, you know, the sex thing was never associated with vampires before. Sex came in the Victorian times, before vampires were associated with night and darkness, and those were the things that we kind of used to fear. Um, and this threshold thing of like having to be invited in again, the invited in part is, is a is a Victorian thing. Thresholds have always been a thing because it's always like the outside and the inside and our safety and all of that. But before it used to you used to put some symbols on the door. You used to put some rice. You know, so that they have to fucking count it. But suddenly it becomes like you have to invite them in. And this invitation in is not just about the threshold and the physical space. It's also about the fact that if you did invite them in, it's your own fault, right? So, so it also like puts the blame of, of why this bad thing that has happened onto the person because they wanted it. So it gives agency to people or puts the blame on people for this kind of bad, seductive thing that's at their door and 

F: victim blaming 

S: and, you know, always there. It's like because it's polite society. So if there's even a stranger at your door, you should, um, invite them in. So again, it's like from our good nature, um, because we're Victorian and refined and good, we have to invite the stranger in. But once you invite the stranger in, what happens? And again, 

F: you get gay, 

S: you get, you get sucked, boy, 

F: you get sucked.

S: Uh, but yeah. So it's it's again, this kind of reflection of the society at the time, you know, this white man's burden, this like we are. 

F: Oh, being gay is the white man's burden. You're gonna get sucked to your burden away, my friend. 

S: You're gonna get sucked. 

F: I knew I liked vampires for a reason. 

S: Mhm. But it's again the anxiety of society because, like, they actually believe themselves to be the good guy in this, you know. 

F: English Victorians being the good guys and they're like oh we're one. 

S: We're just, we're just so we're just so good and and why, why do people always take advantage of our good nature? 

F: We don't want to be sucked dry by a tall dandy in evening wear. God, I love a widow's peak. I mean, I don't.

S: Yeah. So there's there's this. Always, like blood, sex and women, you know, before vampires 

F: Blood Sex and rock and roll it. Before that, it was blood, sex and women love it.

S: And it used to be like women used to be vampires before. Mostly in most societies, it'll be like a woman kind of undead because they're not always bloodsucking. Sure, a succubus is a kind of vampire because, like, it takes your life essence. It's undead, you know? Um, and, you know, they fucking, I don't know, have a sperm bank or something. 

F: They also suck you. Yeah. But from the vagina. Exactly. Suck your your seed out.

S: Take your seed. And there's only so much seed you have, so you need to be careful. 

F: You can't make any more. God only gave you so much. 

S: But somehow it's also interesting in Victorian times how it becomes a man and how women are susceptible to that man. 

F: well we are weak brained so

S: well, that's the Victorian version of it. It removes agency and like kind of fear of women, fear of women's sexuality, fear of women's strength, it all goes away and it becomes a man who is seducing, you know, feeble brained women 

F: and feeble brained men 

S:and feeble brained men, you know. But, you know, that's just that's just locker room stuff. You know,

F:  it's just boys being boys. 

S: Exactly. It's it's nothing that it's nothing that's important. That important, you know? Right. 

F: Yeah. It is interesting that, like, when a woman is a victim of a vampire, it's like, well, you welcomed him in, honey, you dumb ho. But then when a man, you know, Jonathan Harker becomes, like, obsessed with with Dracula and sort of seduced by him, it's like, well, it's that gay vampire's fault for making me so gay.

S: Absolutely. It's not my fault. He's seduced me. He has supernatural powers

F: of of sucking. 

S: But. Yeah, and that kind of that image of a vampire kind of persists to this day somehow. How? Um, along with the church stuff. But however, uh, I found it really interesting that in the eighties, with the Aids epidemic, let's say, uh, vampires became a plague again, you know, and there's and there's many kind kinds of films like, you know, The Lost Boys in eighty seven or The Hunger or Life Force in in eighty five, and all of them have to do with, like, bloodborne diseases. 

F: Oh, yes. Okay. So I didn't see any of those except for The Lost Boys, which was one of my favorite films. If people haven't seen it. Kiefer Sutherland so scary, but also okay. So the the snap of that one is like it's the fear is so, uh, so exactly the eighties. It's a group of young men, right? All they're all young men. The girl that, like, hangs out with them. She's still a human. I think for some reason I don't think she's a vampire, but they're all like young men in their leather. And then like the eighties, you know, you have that. The really cool, the really bad boys kind of walked that line between, again, masculinity and femininity. They wore makeup, their hair was done. There was this whole thing. So they were. Yeah, they could absolutely have been queer coded, even though they also classic of the eighties, somebody very queer coded, but then also represent this really strong toxic masculinity yes, the macho ness of it all. But then you think, oh, Kiefer Sutherland's like the main one. And then they go to like, kill him and they're like, that's it. We freed all the vampires. But the twist, very much like the Victorian fear of Dracula, was that the actual head vampire was the suburban dad was the, like, kindly suburban dad who was just there to take care of this poor single mother and her two teenage sons and like he's the one that's the, like deep fear of it is that it's not actually those gays are teenagers, 

S: but the gays are everywhere. The gays are fucking hiding between us in suburbia. Frankie. 

F: Exactly. But honestly, great film. Uh, we should watch it. You probably haven't even seen it, have you? 

S: I have not seen it, but I would. Yeah, we should watch it. 

F: See that? It's so good. Also, the main guy. I have no idea what his name is. He looks just like, um, fucking what's his name from the doors. It's crazy. Jim Morrison looks just like him. It's wild. It's a great film, very camp. But. Yeah,

S:  but I mean, again. So it's it's the fears of the society and it becomes less about violence and more about, you know, like blood and the disease of the blood. And so, yeah, 

F: it's a lot like, drink this blood and then you become a vampire. Oh my God, 

S: it goes. So it goes back to like the plague vampires. You know something that is something like that. Um. And we're not immune to it. Even, like in the nineties, you know, the vampires, because nineties were kind of when neoliberalism came in all this excess. So these all these vampires are suddenly broody, right? They, like they have everything they want. They they have been able to like, you know, hack the monetary system. They're rich. They're eternal. But somehow it's not enough. So that again becomes the fear of of this excess. It's like we are. Everything we want is to get more things. And now that we have all these material things, like is it, how can it be not enough? How can I still be unhappy?

F: You know what's an interesting cross section between the those two is interview with the vampire, Anne Rice's books, and then the film that came afterwards were wildly popular, and it was gay vampires One hundred percent. They're so gay. But it is like that thing where then they also their whole crux of it is that they then become unsatisfied and they they're like, well, we want a family. And they turn this little girl into a vampire and she can't ever grow old. So it's the combo of the, like, neoliberalism. We have everything, but we're not happy. But then also there's like a kind of an undercurrent. I mean, I don't know if Anne Rice meant this. She might be pro the gays. I think she is. But there's an undercurrent, fear there of like, what if we allow gay people to adopt children and they become literal monsters?

S: also they'll infect those children, but also like the, the, you know, family values and the normal family is going away. So what's going to happen with these? Like, are we going to be unsatisfied because we only think of ourselves and are not making children? You know, there's like more fears. How about, you know, Twilight, like, 

F: yeah, I was gonna say, when are we getting to Twilight, bitch? What is there to be afraid of? 

S: What do you think there's to be afraid of? 

F: Okay, here's what I think. Here's what I think Twilight is. Twilight is the sexual expression of a repressed Mormon woman writing for repressed teenage girls who don't know what sex is. Is that not what it is? 

S: It is what it is. But what is she afraid of? What? What do vampires symbolize? 

F: Oh, God, I don't know. Probably. I did read the books. Like I'm gonna bash on it because I've been there and I've read them. I didn't see the film.

S: I've read them also.

F: You did?

S: I've read them. And I've seen the films. Because I was dating a girl back then who was obsessed. And I would read them and talk to her about all of them

F: this is like, I had no idea that this podcast was going to open up a new door to our friendship. I can't believe you've read Twilight. 

S: I can't believe you haven't watched Twilight.

F: So are you Team Edward or Team Jacob? 

S: Um, I think Team Edward. I like the broody. I like the broody. Kind of. I don't want I don't want to hurt you, Bella. 

F: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just like I could, but also I could sex you into oblivion. And that's why we're not gonna have sex.

S: I will, I will break your pelvis if I sex you, girl. Amazing. Also, you're my. You're my personal brand of heroin, girl. 

F: To you. To you, a recovering drug addict. Love that. Love that. It really hits you where you lived, didn't it? 

S: You know, it showed me the way forward. It said heroin. What's that? 

F: You know what I grew up being like. I think it's normal for a boy to just watch me while I sleep. And that's what I've been looking for this whole time. Is just somebody to watch me while I sleep. 

S: Also remember, you know, the scene where they're in the forest and she's like. And he's like, just. Just say it. What am I so good, so good. And she goes vampire. So what's that? He's coming out of the closet, you know, 

F: and he's sparkly. He's comes out. He's glittery.

S: Absolutely. And that's the thing that he always has to hide. He has to hide his glittery nature. He's the.

F: Is it the fear that as a straight girl, you're gonna fall in love with a gay guy? Is that just like, 

S: you know, we can we can interpret it like that. But I think it's more like this guy's fear of being himself. You know? He has to always hide. However, there's still, you know, like, very wealthy. And they can just do whatever they want. They have all the cars go to high school. 

F: Yeah. Like what the. Why are they going to high school? But then pretending to be a bunch of incestuous couples. 

S: Yeah. It's just it's just America, you know what I mean? Like, every time there's a story, it's like, oh, high school. I don't know why you guys are so obsessed with high school.

F: It's the best time of everybody's life. Everybody peaks in high school, and then we just drop as a society. Actually, if you want to get into culturally why Americans are obsessed with high school, we can get into it because I've thought about it, but we won't. This is about vampires. Look, I feel like, as well, uh, maybe it started with sort of like an interview with a vampire, Lost boys. This time period, the vampires start becoming cool. Like, in a way that, you know that a subsect of society, teenagers, young people, are going to want to be them. That's an interesting switch where it goes from like Bram Stoker, Victorian times, everybody was like, no, I don't want to be a vampire. But then there's a switch in the modern era of like, yes, they still represent our fears, but some people, they are cool. They've got like, people want to be vampires. 

S: Yeah, absolutely. And like, even though Bram Stoker is Stokers. One was like, uh, we're going to, uh, kind of look at our desires and try to, like, maybe have a fantasy about them through this repulsive creature that we don't want to be like. You know, it suddenly becomes, I want this. And I think there comes the, like, whole once I have everything, once I do have eternal life, like, is it going to be enough? And I think it's really about individualism and consumerism, you know. And so like, I do want these things. I do want me to like, live on. I don't care if my family lives on because they're gonna die and I'm gonna still be alive. So I'm gonna just be alone in this world, but I'm gonna have everything. And, like, so is that a good compromise? And there's always this, like, do I want to or do I not want to be a vampire? There's an appeal to it. But there's a question. Absolutely. Um, 

F: I mean, it's not a question for Bella. She's like from day one, she's like, turn me into a vampire. And he's like, uh, there's like moral issues here. And she's like, turn me into a vampire and fuck my brains out.

S: Yeah, but she just wants him to fuck her brains out, right? She doesn't want to turn into a vampire because she wants to live forever. Or because she just wants to. 

F: She just wants to get fucked

S: because she's a mormon lady writing this, you know? Yeah. And I'm surprised that fucking, um. What is what's that Mormon thing where they, like, just insert the penis and don't move. 

F: Oh, soaking. Soaking. 

S:I wonder, like, why Bella and fucking Edward couldn't have soaked. Didn't do soaked. 

F: I mean, yeah, because he wouldn't have been able to control himself. Oh right. Because ah. And then he would. 

S:So again his, his lack of control is what she fears, right. It's again a fear of society, this kind of lack of control of sexual impulse. Because the Mormon church tells you you shouldn't fucking do it. 

F: Oh, God. So true. Also. Sidebar. All of that was set famously. Forks, Washington, which you had to drive through to get to Ocean Shores, Washington, which is where I would spend every summer working forty hours a week child labor. Um, somebody should be arrested,

S: somebody shouldbe arrested 

F:  somebody should be arrested. But it, um, it was quite funny because you would get people this was the time as well. They'd just been released. They were a huge hit. Um, the books. And you would get people being like, wow, I want to come out here and like, see. And I'm like, girl, it's Washington. It's depressing out here. This is a beach town, but it's grey. You see everything grey. It's not nice like, but, 

S: you know, because the shine in the sun, it's good that they're in a in a place that's. 

F: So they went somewhere where there's no sunshine. Think about that. They're using their vampire brains. 

S: They're using their fucking five hundred year old vampire brains, motherfucker. 

F: But not their five hundred year old vampire dicks. No, they're not used on that. 

S: Nope. You fucking put that on a shelf. You do not use that 

F: also wasn’t one of them, a Confederate soldier. And that was just, like, glossed over. They were like, we're just gonna. He's fine. And you're like, I feel like he's probably not fine. Yeah, I feel like he's probably still Confederate soldier. 

S: He's a terrible person.

F: a bad person? 

S: Yeah. Mm. But he lives forever, and he's sparkly. So whatever. Whatever. As long as he fucks my fucking pelvis into oblivion. 

F: So silly. 

S: I was thinking about, like, you know, plague vampires and with kind of Covid and vaccines, you know, and I, I haven't really found anything specific about that. However, you know, all this kind of far right, like, oh, these Democrats are using, you know, baby placentas and to live longer and shit like that. It's true.

F:  It's true. 

S: So again, it's like people in power using or like consuming other people's life force to kind of keep themselves going. Maybe we'll have a new vampire series where it starts with the vaccine, you know, or something like that. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to the new plague, vampires and what they're going next. Where are they going to go next? What is our society? You know, fearing, maybe, like, vampires will be like, uh, I don't know, nuclear mutants after, you know, the nuclear war. Who knows? 

F: Yeah. Who knows? Well, I've got a great story. Um, that really encapsulates actually quite a lot of things we talked about. So picture this. It's nineteen fifties Glasgow now. There's a lot of industry here. It's still quite working class. We haven't had Thatcherism yet. So, uh, the industries that are here in Glasgow are shipbuilding. There's still some mining happening. Um, there's been a decline in Glasgow since the Victorian times when the city was filled with money, but it's not quite. Um, there are some parts of the city that are incredibly destitute and it's very working class. Um, so it's the nineteen fifties in America. What's happening is you're starting to get the very first comic books and comic book characters, things like Superman, etc. but the very first comic books weren't necessarily always about superheroes. They were just stories of, you know, crazy stuff. A lot of them were horror, were scary monster stories. You start getting those publications because they're cheap, easy to reproduce. Coming over here to the UK and specifically over here in Glasgow, you know, little kids could scrounge their pennies and hey, pennies together, and they could get one comic book and they could all read it together. It could be passed around. So they start reading these American comic books about monsters, about villains, about crazy things happening in the dark. They're vividly printed. This is the first time we get publications that are aimed at children that are not, like, educational, that aren't like, you know, Beatrix Potter fucking fluffy bunnies and waistcoats and shit. It's aimed at kids, but it's dark. So a bunch of kids start reading these things, and a rumor starts to develop around the south side of Glasgow, not far from where I live. Just the next neighborhood over in the Gorbals. Now in the Gorbals, there's a massive Victorian graveyard called the Southern Necropolis. And these children? A story starts to spread throughout this neighborhood. Now everybody lives in tenement buildings there, these big, beautiful sandstone buildings, they, you know, some of them don't necessarily have heating, some of them don't necessarily even have running water. And there's a lot of working class families all put in together. And so kids would be, you know, you'd be raised on your street and there would be multiple families living or multiple generations of families all living within the same building. It was a real community sense, a real vibe of community that you still get quite a lot in Glasgow at this time in the fifties. You know, most people don't have a TV. Kids are going outside to play, and rumor spreads like wildfire through these kids that there's something in the graveyard, there's something in the southern necropolis. One story pops up that somebody's dog disappeared and was found drained of blood. Something else says that, you know, a couple was walking through the graveyard and heard something and ran off. Another rumor. Finally, it builds and builds, and the rumor spread to some kid, you know, a few streets away was found dead in the graveyarddrained  of blood. Completely. These children are been sucked. 

S: He'd been sucked. 

F: Sucked. Right. So these kids are all, you know, school age. So that's anywhere from six to twelve, eleven years old. Perfect age for your for your imagination to run wild. So they take it upon themselves and true Glaswegian child fashion. They decide after school they're going to find this monster, this vampire that's been killing things. So they gather whatever weapons they can find stealing knives from home cricket bats. Like just bits of wood with a nail in it. Imagine a legion of working class kids. Dirty. You know, it's the fifties with their little school uniforms every day after school. Charging into the graveyard in hordes and in troops. Going up and down the graves looking for this monster. They do it every day for weeks. 

S: These kids aren't afraid of shit. 

F: They ain't afraid of shit. And they are gonna find this fucking monster 

S: They are gna give him a Glasgow kiss.

F: Exactly. The Gorbals vampire. So they search and they search and they search. And eventually the adults are like, right? This isn't like we can't just have hordes of children weaponized children, like going around hunting stuff. And so they eventually calm the children down and try to dissipate this rumor and this story of the Gorbals vampire. But this incident, which was reported on in the news nationally about these children hunting for the vampire. This story made national news. And it actually, uh, spurred on some members of Parliament to introduce a bill that required certain standards when it came to children's media and media for children, and it actually introduced then the direct cause and effect of it was the first, uh, child censorship laws in the UK about what kinds of things should be censored for children. So not only did this vampire physically represent the fears of a very small community, just the kids in this one neighborhood, they had an input source from these comic books, these stories, these visuals that they'd never seen before.

S: Did they think he was an outsider? Did they think that it was? 

F: No. It sounds it was like this, that this it was based in a graveyard. So it was like a secret monster in the place where they live. Coming up, arrive, not even necessarily arriving, but like, you know, it had just started attacking people. It had been woken up after thousands of years or what, hundreds of years started attacking people. So it's the fear of like a danger appearing in their home, which is, like I said before, very community oriented. In Glasgow. The neighborhoods here are really tight even now. So the fear of like danger appearing in the safe place in the home, but the response not necessarily being one that we're going to go to talk to the adults, that we're going to go to religious figures, none of that. I like the response. I think that's different than most that we've ever seen as kids just going, well, we're going to solve this fucking problem. 

S: So it's like, it's like the crusade where the kids also just like picked up the weapons and walked to Istanbul and all died. 

F: They were like, let's do it. But then also it like from that tiny microcosm incident. It also expanded out to the fears of an entire nation. Suddenly, there was a new fear represented in this vampire of you know, what media are children taking in?

S: And new American media right? 

F: Exactly. And media coming from America. Yeah. Coming from the land of, you know, the the capital of gay drug ifornia. That's where I'm from, the Republic of Gay People's Republic of gay drug afornia I like it. That's a great republic. But you know what I mean. It's that like, you know, the sense that like, in America, they are they don't have those britishisms. They're very open about things. They're very bold. And so that's coming over and affecting our children. Right. Horrible. 

S: What if they bring in the sex also now, you know, like, right. We need to be careful with these children. See,

F:  I mean now they don't give a shit. I would have 

S: I would have loved to see one of those, like, early comic books. You know, it must have been so fucked up. They used to just tell children whatever they want, but also like etiquette about it. 

F: You never. You didn't know, like you'd never see. These kids had never seen anything like that before. Before it was like, you know, see spot run and like Peter Cottontail. And then it was suddenly like, oh, the world is full of monsters. Yeah. But like, if that same shit had happened in fucking, like, I don't know, Oxford, those little kids would have been crying. There would have been no monster hunt. It's the Glasgow children that were like Arright Pal.

S: Fucking. If you have a problem, send those Glasgow children,

F: sort it out yourself. 

S: Yeah, yeah, just. All right. Don't fucking fuck with me or I'll send my kids over with some fucking shivs and shit, right?

F: And I love that as well. It's folklore. It's still part of the city's history. A lot of people still know the story of the Gorbals vampire. There's a mural to the Gorbals Vampire in the Gorbals neighborhood. Um, it's I love that it's folklore that happened not that long ago and that still permeates now. Mhm.

S: It sounds like Goebbels, you know, like the, the. 

F: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. The German Nazi. Okay. So in the TV show Thick of It which was written by great comedy TV show written by Glaswegian Armando Iannucci. Crazy name. Um, he wrote this show thick of it. And he's got a Scottish character in it that just like it's all set in in Westminster and they're all supposed to be working for the government and everything's a shit show. He's the same guy that wrote Veep, so it's like the English version, you know, the British version of that. So everything's a shit show and the, like most badass character. His name is Malcolm Tucker. He's from Glasgow, and he just comes in and just destroys everyone. He's like, you're shit at your job and you're so shit, I want to take your head and shove it up your arse and just listen to you talk to me from your lower intestine like that's the entire show. Is him yelling at people. It's very funny. That sounds good. Somebody in the show calls him the Gorbals Goebbels.

S: Gorbals Goebbels. Mhm.

F: Incredible writing. Fantastic insult. Like I love it. 

S: So you're you're saying that, you know, I'm on the same kind of wavelength as this brilliant comedy writer? 

F: Yeah, yeah, you could be acclaimed comedy writer Armando Iannucci. 

S: Um, I just don't have a strong name like that. 

F: Well, you got to be an Italian Glaswegian. Those are the craziest motherfuckers. 

S: That sounds like a crazy fucking combination. Mhm. 

F: That's what I would produce if I weren't barren and not producing like a vampire. Oh my God. 

S: Full circle. 

F: Full circle. Full circle to my womb. 

S: You know that will not get pounded by a vampire because he's afraid to hurt you. Exactly. 

F:He's afraid of destroying. Maybe that's me. Maybe I'm the vampire. I'm like, no, Scott. We can't have sex. I'll just bang you into oblivion because I'm a vampire. Say it. Say it. 

S: What am I?

F:  What am I? a bitch

S: Oh my God, Frankie came out as a bitch. 

F: Everybody's like, we knew it. Yeah, right. Interesting. Vampires. Not just a pretty face.

S: No, actually, it used to be an ugly face, but, like. Yeah, really? It's, um. It's the representation of all our anxieties somehow. And, uh, it shall continue to be so for the foreseeable future. 

F: Mhm. Definitely. Yeah. I would love like what would be. I mean again love the energy vampire thing. I think that's a lovely new addition to vampires. But yeah. Like what? What would be the next? The next way it would evolve? Maybe because of Covid and the plague. But I feel like in the modern age that is so connected to zombies, which is another one we should monster, we should do at some point. But like, you know what? It's the the taking of life. 

S: I feel like drains your data. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 

F: Your phone's like a vampire. 

S: And you invited you invite it in 

F: or AI? Yeah. 

S: Yeah, sure. It's harvesting your data, which is kind of your life force. You have to, like, sign the, like consent. 

F: The consent, accept cookies. 

S: Exactly. So you've accepted this leecher into your into your life, you know, 

F: and then get rid of it. Um,

S: it takes it takes up your time. It takes up your data, 

F: and it's gay as well. 

S: It's gay as well. Oh no. Oh no. Oh my God, those fucking guys keep finding new and inventive ways they're gonna get penetrating us.

F: Oh, God. We'd like here at folkloric would like to remind everybody that we are allies. We love the gays. This is just society, okay? We're just talking about society doesn't love the gays. It's not us. 

S: It's not us. It's not us.

F: It's not us I love many gays. 

S: Um, I have like, I have gay friends, 

F: I have gay friends, 

S: I have a gay friend. 

F: I have a gay friend. I kind of hate him, though, so maybe he's not the best example. Just kidding. Love you. My God, don't add me. Right. I think we should wrap it up because I have to pee. Wow. Right, everybody watch out for your vampires. Vampires? Um, carry garlic with you all the time, and don't get sucked dry. 

S: Don't get sucked, bro. And also, if you think of anything that's like a societal fear that's portrayed in a vampire hit us up, 

F: hit us up. Uh, also plugging ourselves, you can get issue one. You can get a variety of merch, um, on our website, folkloricmag.com. You can also get physical copies in various shops such as Wheel of Fate and Edinburgh will ship you shit if you live in the UK. Um, if you don't live in the UK, you can get a digital download e-book version of our very first issue. Oh my God, that's so amazing. Pay our bills. Right. Peace. Peace out.